>> dana: i was on a horse. they drugged the horse so they wouldn't move and they were stuffed. rodeo clown, i love them. they wear suspender, too. >> eric: like "the five." >> you're our rodeo clown. >> eric:'ll do it. can i say it? we are probably on "entertainment tonight" and check the local listings. "the insider." before "entertainment tonight." you're 100% right. check it out. i made a prediction. see if they air that. that is it for "the five." thank you for watching, everyone. see you tomorrow. ♪ ♪ >> bret: this is a fox news alert. i'm bret baier in washington. the person thought to be at the top of president obama's short list, to replace hillary clinton as secretary of state, has taken herself out of the running. united nations ambassador susan rice has been under withering assault from the republicans over her response to september terror attack in

benghazi, libya. get the latest from the chief white house correspondent ed henry. good evening. >> good evening. this is a dramatic shift. the president caving on someone who he really wanted to install as the next secretary of state. i'm told by the top democrats he has been agonizing over this, privately in recent days because he wanted to give her this promotion. we know in the first post election news conference the president very aggressively defended susan rice against the attacks from republicans on the hill. over whether or not she misled the public about benghazi. saying i have every confidence he is can serve our country now and years in come. we reported earlier today this the top democrats tell me they believe that susan rice is a contender to become the national security advisor here at the white house. the key that she would not need senate confirmation for the post.

rice noting to letter to the president potential filibuster from republicans we cannot afford irresponsible distraction from the most pressing issues facing the american people. the likely pick for secretary of state is senator john kerry. there are some democrats on capitol hill tonight worried that republican scott brown could take that open senate seat if in fact john kerry steps down. but this white house tonight made a bigger political calculation. they could not start off with a bloody battle over benghazi. >> bret: busy night at the white house. other news as well. >> just in the last hour, speaker john boehner came over here. it was rather quickly that this came together. he is behind closed doors right now with the president, talking about the fiscal cliff. this may be a last ditch attempt to try to get a deal. >> president obama was not fretting about the fiscal cliff as he strolled to a holiday party, joking with fox news about the warm weather

and expressing hope about a deal. >> it's a work in propro gress. >> speaker boehner not so hopeful. >> it's this issue. spending. he rails against what he claims is not enough spending cut in the proposal and slammed the push for executive powr to raise the debt ceiling something that the democrats never would have given former president george w. bush. >> do you think there is any chance senator obama would have done that? zero. congress is never going to give up our ability to control the purse. >> new fox poll suggests the public wants spending reigned in, with 4% saying the federal government provides too many services. only 20% says too few services, 25% says the right amount. yet, the talks are now so far off-track a senior democrat tells fox at private dinner on wednesday, senate majority leader harry reid told colleagues he believes getting a major deal to avoid the

fiscal cliff by christmas is almost impossible. so unless there is a dramatic last-minute agreement by the president and speaker that includes the tax and spending changes momentum is gaining around a plan "b," in which the house passes a senate bill to extend the middle class tax cuts to allow the taxes to go up on the rich and leaves the spending fight to next year. >> in case of emergency, the house should break the glass. house speaker ought to allow the republicans to vote on extending tax cuts for 98% of the american people. that would deal with chunk of the so-called fiscal cliff. >> while the white house has been confident the president has the upper hand, a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll suggests otherwise. asks who gets the blame if washington goes off the cliff? 19% said the president and democrats. 24% said republican. and 56% said they would be equally do blame. >> now the president just did a series of local tv interviews to put more pressure on john boehner and the republicans.

in one of the interviews he said look, he has cut $1 trillion in spending. he is willing to do in the president's words a lot more. he still wants a big deal in the neighborhood of $4 trillion. we'll see if he and the speaker behind closed doors can get there. bret? >> bret: more on susan rice. and the fiscal cliff with the panel. but before we let you go, ed, what is the news about the president's new cabinet? there is news about that. >> chuck hague the former republican senator is now the leading contender for defense secretary. leon panetta expected to step down soon. the bottom line, he and the president met behind closed doors at the white house earlier in month. he served with the president and the senate and vice president biden in the senate and i'm told behind the scenes biden is pushing this hard. we have could see a kerry-hagel new national security team and possibility of susan rice moving over to the national security advisor, bret? >> bret: thank you. just got word speaker boehner just left the white house as we were talking.

there is a conflicting information if the star witness will answer questions week from today and herridge has more on the uncertainty surrounding hillary clinton. first, reaction on capitol hill to the withdrawal of ambassador rice. good evening. >> good evening. >> leading republican critics of ambassador rice say they respect her decision. they remain focused on identifying the facts behind the benghazi attack. also tonight, the republican chair of the house intelligence committee said he believed there was gross negligence on behalf of the state department when it came to provide security for ambassador stevens. >> there was a serious security threat. they did not make the right decision to secure the ambassador himself and all kind of evidence of all sorts leading up to that conclusion. >> two congressional committees one chaired by the democratic senator john kerry say secretary of state hillary clinton will publicly testify

a week from today on the benghazi terrorist attack, the state department officials told reporters they could find the internal investigation known as the accountability review board or the arb isn't finished. >> again, the hill talked about planning date on the calendar. that presumes that the arb is finished. i don't a schedule of the secretary to announce here. it is dependent on events between now and then. >> on capitol hill in closed classified briefings on the status of the investigation lawmakers were told it's slow going because the militia, not the libyan government control benghazi. not getting in specifics the leading democrat characterized the progress as limited. >> there is more to do. investigation is not complete. this is ongoing process. but they compound the facts now. >> new fox poll show wide margin americans think president obama should have sent u.s. troops to to stop the 9/11 terror attac attack. americans are divided over the

administration handling the attack with slim majority believing it amounts to coverup. earlier in week, one republican said the f.b.i. yet to interview suspect held by the tunisia authorities since third week of october. >> why are we not doing everything in our power to investigate events in benghazi that killed four americans? >> a second suspect was killed in a raid in late october on this cairo neighborhood. and the third publicly known suspect is now held by egyptian authorities. attorney general eric holder defended the criminal investigation. >> there are a range of other things that we are doing with regard to benghazi incident that we don't talk about. >> earlier today, republican congressman claimed the state department blocked his effort to meet with the benghazi survivor saying he doesn't know who are where they are. fox news reviewed the regulation to cover the state department investigation. it does suggest there is no obligation to provide the entire report to congress once it's finished, bret? >> bret: we will continue to follow it all. thank you. >> you're welcome. >> bret: questions tonight about how successful north

korea's satellite launch really is. u.s. officials say there are indications that the north koreans may not have complete control over that satellite. that while it remains in orbit, it's tumbling. south korean authorities say everything is fine with the satellite. syria's most important and powerful ally russia is conceding. president bashar assad is losing control of his country. bomb blast near a school in damascus killed at least 16 people today. it was a domestic suburb. the state news agency says half of them were women and children. government blames terrorists. it's named for rebels. one american killed and three wounded when a suicide bomber on a motorcycle attacked the main military base in southern afghanistan. it came after nightfall at a gate that provides access to military side of the kandahar airfield. back at home, there are serious questions about whether the national labor relations board has lost its

way or perhaps embarked on a new course. correspondent doug mckelway on a group that is supposed to be all about fairness. >> the national labor relations board, the federal agency tapped with protecting employees from unfair management or the union practices has become a biased advocate for big labor. that blunt assess in the a report released today by chairmachairman isa. >> they are supposed to be a neutral arbitrator and have a firewall between the judges and is representative as a plaintiff. >> it's an appeals court. they have a prosecutor type of role and five-member board has a jury role. a court of law forbid the two from communicating about pending cases. the committee reveal such ex parte communication. some dealing with the boeing

plant in south korea and halt production of the 787 dreamliner. in one e-mail, the associate general counsel praises the press release stating that hooray for the red, white, blue. in another r acting to the boeing intention to fight the complaint, nlrb attorney write let the games begin. in another, the nlrb head of public affairs writes to the acting general council worried she made the machinist union mad. all forbidden under the national relations act. >> we need to look at the about and the pronexts that used to be -- protections that used to be there and make the ex parte communication a rule violation to a criminal violation. >> asked by fox news to respond to the release of today's report, head of nlrb public affairs wrote thank you for forwarding the committee report. we weren't aware of it and don't have comment at in time. three of the five nlrb board members with deep ties to big labor recess appointed to the one-year terms and did not

undergo scrutiny of senate advice and consent. with the adjournment of the 112th congress days away the opportunity arises for president obama to make more recess appointments. >> bret: thanks. one of the president's big fans wants to put people who are not fans in the slammer. that is later in the grapevine. up next, the president environmental enforcers find a way to get democrats upset. ♪

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the agency's plan to regulate single creek in commonwealth could cost state and county officials half a billion dollars and private property owners their home and businesses. by forcing the virginia department of transportation and fairfax county, virginia, to control the storm water runoff on land they don't own. so what they will have to do is things like take people's houses, evict them. knock houses down and plant grass. so the water doesn't flow and it instead soaks in the earth. >> epa says water when there is too much of it can be classified as pollutant giving the epa brad regulatory power under clean water act. a well-known conservative filed a federal lawsuit against the epa earlier in year, which was joined by the democratically controlled fair fax county board of supervisors who despite the political differences with kuchinelli agree what they are proposing is illegal. they will land in federal court on friday where the epa

says its plan is in harmony with the broader purposes of the clean water act including congress' objective to protect the physical and biological integrity of water and reducing the water quality impact of storm water. so the democratic officials signed on to the lawsuit say allowing the epa to move forward with the plan would grant the agency sweeping new regulatory power over private property. critics say it's all hype. >> there are no possibilities of homes being removed in the process. they are going to gin up the opposition through the effort. >> they are asking for injunction to block the entire plan. >> bret: thank you. tomorrow is the deadline for states to say they will run the own health surance exchanges. so far, 15 agreed to do so. that could leave the federal government on the hook to set up exchanges in two-third of

the country. government funded healthcare has a short history in this country but it's piling up huge bills for future generations to pay. tonight, the chief national correspondent jim angle looks at the past, present and future of medicare spending. >> the baby boom generation of the 1950s is getting older and living long sore the cost of federal programs for seniors is soaring. >> medicare costs risen more dramatically than social security over the years and probably the single biggest driver of federal deficit going forward. >> our healthcare retirement programs are literally eating us alive. the combination of medicare and other entitlement programs and insurance is as large as what we raise in the total federal revenue. >> other revenue from defense to infrastructure will be funded with borrowed money. seniors pay premiums for some of the programs it's not

enough to cover the cost. federal budget covers any shortage. the shortage will be huge. >> both parts of medicare are going to exceed taxes and incoming premium contributions by $20 trillion over the next 75 years. >> the first year after it was created under johnson in 1965, the program spent $3 billion. even after medicare was well underway in 1970, it only spent $7 billion a year. now it's more than $560 billion a year. and the number of seniors is exploding. in 1966, just after creation, some $19 million people were immediate beneficiaries, by 1990, it climbed to $34 million. the year 2000 almost $40 million. now more than $50 million. and growing. huge burden for those still paying taxes. >> right now there are three workers for every beneficiary. we are headed to two workers for every beneficiary. large burden to hold. >> analysts say the savings are impair tev and they say no

more changes after mr. obama cut medicare by $716 billion, which the democrats call savings. >> get back to medicare. and lengthen the strength for at least a decade. as well as increasing benefits now. we have addressed entitlements. >> the trust fund for the hospital cost runs out of official money in 20424 so it has to be changed to be saved. bret? >> more on that in a series next week. jim, thank you. still ahead could this be the next penn state? the head of a huge fraternal organization is accused of child sexual assault. years ago, my doctor told me to take a centrum silver multivitamin every day. i told him, sure. can't hurt, right? then i heard this news about a multivitamin study

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>> bret: breaking news tonight. the head of a huge fraternal organization moose international is being accused of child sexual assault. senior national correspondent john roberts broke the story earlier today. the fox news exclusive. he has more details tonight. including a response from that organization, live from charlotte, north carolina. good evening, john. >> good evening to you, bret. the man at the center of the new controversy is 71-year-old william arie who heads up the million member order of moose fraternal organization. and the lawsuit filed today he is accused of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old boy in 1980. that suit brought by the charlotte area dr. jason peck. as a result we got this response from moose international today, saying -- the fraternity is shocked by the allegation, as this is not the bill arie we know. consistent the board policy, he will not be in contact with

the residential students at moose heart until further notice. that is the large campus of group home and school for needy children attached to the international headquarters in chicago. dr. peck that brought the suit against mr. airey told me that airey befriended him whence he was a young boy when they were both in columbus, ohio. they would take overnight trips for mug-related events. on one, peck alleges that airey engaged in full on sexual assault. >> it was night. room was pitch black. i was very shocked. very scared. i recall tears coming down my face and wetting the pillow behind me. i laid perfectly still. and mr. much went in to shock mode. i didn't know if i was going to be hurt or injured if i tried to fight back so i didn't. >> according to peck's attorney it's because airey

left the state of ohio before he turned 19 the statue of limitations does not apply. we reached out to mr. airey for a response and we are told he is out of the country on a cruise celebrating his 50th wedding anniversary. bret? >> bret: john roberts in charlotte. thank you. one of president obama's biggest supporters says the president should just throw his critics in jail. the grapevine is next. i love to eat. i love hanging out with my friends.

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>> bret: fresh picking from the political grapevine. yet to be released military manual blames u.s. troop, not the taliban, for insider attacks against americans in afghanistan. the "wall street journal" got an early look at the handbook. here are a few highlights. soldiers should be careful not to bad mouth afghans or the taliban. advocate for women's right. criticize pedophilia, mention homosexuality or say anything related to islam. creators of the 75-page manual believe so-called green blue attacks have more to do with american ignorance or incensetivety than taliban infiltration. singer harry bellafonte

thinks president obama should throw his republican critics in jail. "that there should be a lingering infestation of corrupt people who sit trying to dismantle the wishes of the people, the mandate, that has been given to barack obama, and i don't know what more they want. the only thing left for barack obama to do is to work like a third world dictator and put all the guys if jail." he has previously sung praises of and appeared in person with third world dictators like hugo chavez. he once called george w. bush the greatest terrorist in the world. finally, of course, for christians, the birth of jesus is the reason for the season. the true reason of christmas. for jews this is the sixth night of hanukkah. so religion plays in to this time of the year, of course. on tuesday's "today show" the medical editor nancy schneiderman talked about hiring people to do christmas

related chores when she suddenly said, "i don't like to religion part. i think religion is what mucks the whole thing up. i think that's what makes the holidays so stressful." well, that didn't sit well with fellow panelists star jones who defended her faith. "that is the only reason for me to have the holiday. we would haven't the holiday if it wasn't for the religion part." >> we told you earlier president obama and house speaker john boehner met a few moments ago, and it was about the fiscal cliff, trying to avoid the cliff. tonight, james rosen looks at what impact the uncertainty over that situation is already having on small businesses. >> at tart lumber, family owned firm of six decades standing, owner cl friche worry that owners will bear the brunt from the politicians fail to avert the so-called fiscal cliff.

>> profits from this business flow through my wife and my personal tax return so it's easy to hit $250,000. take a salary and have a little profit. we don't buy boats or second homes. i don't have vacation propert property. it plow it back in the business to create jobs. >> not knowing what the tax rate and deductions will be next year led friche to take a 2 x 4 for his spending for things like computer equipment. >> i have servers that are 7 years old i want to replace but i'm not willing to pull the trigger not knowing what will happen next year. if the fiscal cliff has, we'll go in recession. people will put off improving their home and it will impact my buds. >> abuds -- my business. >> you have more of the tax money going in, more money going in taxes. less goes in business that fix up and take care of business. we are not going to upgrade as many kitchen or replace as

many appliances. the air conditioning stoves down the line. >> he said he will likely lay off employee to juggle the cost. >> big business, they if v full-time accountant and lawyers on their staff. it's part of the overhead and administration but for us it's extra expense off the top. >> it goes across the country. the latest gallup small business index released today find small business owners net capital spending inintentions for 12 months plunged to negative 14 in november. the lowest level two years. >> the dow lost 75. s&p 500 fell nine. nasdaq finished 22. down. finished 22 down. susan rice is out as potential secretary of state. we talk about that with the

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>> bret: well, a statement late this afternoon that u.n. ambassador susan rice was withdrawalling her name from consideration for being nominated for secretary of state. in the statement, she said among other things this -- "i am now convinced that the confirmation process would be lengthy, disruptive and costly, to you, the president, and to our most pressing national and international priorities and the tradeoff is simply not worth it to our country." the president had a statem of his own, "while i deeply regret the unfair and misleading attacks on susan rice in recent weeks her decision demonstrates the strength of her character and admirable commitment to rise above the politics of the moment to put the national interests first. the american people can be proud to have a public servant

of her caliber and character representing our country." the president inside sources said really wanted susan rice to be the next secretary of state. he talked about it. at least he defended her publicly numerous times. >> if senator mccain and senator graham and others want to go after somebody, they should go after me. i am happy to have that discussion with them. for them to go after the u.n. ambassador, who had nothing to do with benghazi, and was simply making a presentation based on intelligence that she had received, and to besmirch her reputation, is outrageous. >> susan rice is extraordinary. could been prouder of the job she has done. >> this is around her

statements after the september 11 terror attacks in benghazi, libya, on the sunday shows. we are getting word, abc news is reporting that the president will meet with susan rice at the white house tomorrow. let's bring in the panel to talk about this among other things. jonah goldberg, national editor. and charles lane. and syndicated columnist charles krauthammer. charles? >> well, this is one instance where the president vanity yielded to necessity. the defense of susan rice we saw is the worst defense of everybody since brutus is an honorable man was simply himself getting carried away, saying don't touch the little lady. saying i'll defend her. he sort of put himself out there as if this is a challenge to my authority. implying that he would have to nominate her. but cooler heads prevailed. not sure whose they were. but clearly had she been nominated the benghazi scandal would have been on the fron

page. and i think with her not being nominated, benghazi scandal will die in the main stream media. they will have no interest in this story. that is why i think the president sought safety. he put himself out there. would have rather had her and feels he somehow yielded. the consolation will be he will make her national security advisor, a powerful position. it does not require the consent of the senate. henry kissinger in the first term for nixon they did all this amazing stuff he was the national security advisor and then he became the secretary of state. so it could be even in theory and history a more powerful position than secretary of state. if the president wants it to be. he might want it to be in her case. >> bret: chuck, going bet is that the president will nominate senator john kerry, massachusetts senator who kind of privately lobbied for this spot. that would obviously open up a

seat eventually in massachusetts. many people thinking that scott brown would be wanting to go after that seat eventua eventually. the question becomes why withdrawal from something you weren't nominated for in the first place? it was a strange process, wasn't it? she was up lob boeing senators well before -- lobbying senators well before a nomination especially. we were getting play-by-plays from the senator mccain and senator graham and senator collins came out and it didn't go well. this was a nomination that was even, not even there yet. now she is withdrawalling from that non-nomination. we are getting a response about the non-nomination. why? >> there is a lot that we don't know about exactly why this happened. exactly why it happened today. there was some indications she was eager to continue to defending her record and to carry this through. all of a sudden, she is withdrawalling and we have to

know whether it's entirely her own decision or not. you mentioned susan collins and the sub slot about the possibility of a moderate republican having a second shot. scott brown to become senator from massachusetts. if you look back at the sweep of the last few weeks, that meeting with susan collins stands out as a crucial negative moment for susan rice. a lot of the discourse from the democrats about susan rice, she is a victim of sexism and/or racism and the extreme right of the party. then along comes a woman senator known as a moderate to give her a bad review on the meeting. i had the feeling at the time and i guess i have been vindicated that was the beginning of the end for susan rice. in recent days she started to take fire from environmentalists to being too close to keystone pipeline. she started to take fire from some human rights folk wos say when she was in the clinton administration she was too close to african-american -- african dictators too. in m straws on the camel's

back. >> chuck makes a point that is the most loud cross -- he is not making it, but ludicrous talking points. the racist, sexism republicans were waiting in the weeds until the fifth nonwhite male secretary of state would be appointed, and they pounced. we haven't had a white male secretary of state since larry eagleberger 20 years ago. george bush never had a white male secretary of state. yet somehow this is motivated by racism and sexism, ludicrous thing. but the woman that chuck does not mention is hillary clinton, who made it clear that she preferred john kerry, and when you add in the fact that most of the attacks on her character an her disposition came from liberal sources, dana millbank of the "washington post," maureen dowd of the times. various human rights groups. there was a whisper campaign coming from left against her that i think mattered as much if anything than susan collins did. >> bret: what about the benghazi situation? is it possible that the story

is so bad and that the investigation is starting to uncover so much that the president really can't deal with this kind of story coming out at this time? take a listen to the chairman of the house intelligence committee on cnn today. i should point out that secretary of state clinton is scheduled to testify, on capitol hill next week but the state department is saying that is not a done deal of yet. it's not a done deal that this report will be finished and brought forward to capitol hill. take a listen. >> i feel strongly that there was a gross negligence when it came to the physical security of the ambassador at the mission there in benghazi. that was very clear to me. some very, very bad decigs were made. i think contributed to the death of the ambassador and three other great americans. so that part i think is ticking great shape. i think the intelligence part

is coming together. it sounds to me. or looks to me. when i review everything that it looked good leading in the day. and then the days after and i think it's clear that there was a political interpretation of the intelligence and the days after. >> bret: charles, gross anything le jens is not, that is not sugarcoated. >> no. i think not. i think these reports will be negative. two things. number within, they will be dropped on friday afternoon, probably at christmas. these are not harolded from the -- heralded from the white house, or from the state department. they will be done in the middle of a frenzy on the fiscal cliff or who knows what else. second, unless you have a person there, poster child for scandal and that would have been susan rice, hearings for secretary of state, which would have made dramatic story you can't escape it, the media would have to cover it. i think showing how little interest the media had up until now i think they will be less enthusiastic. now there are three scandals

here that are real scandals. i am projecting what i think the media will do if there is no circus over susan rice as you would have had, had she been nominated. >> bret: chuck, won't there have to be some questioning of secretary clinton? >> apparently she is going to testify, right? >> bret: the state department is says it's not locked in yet. >> right. that is appropriate and inevitable. as far as i can tell it's a matter of working it out. charles' point is correct, that is not a spectacular event. it won't be a lot on the line. theneck secretary of state will not be on the line and not the focal ninety susan rice would have provided. >> bret: perhaps the next presidential candidate might be on the line. >> want to make a point about what mike rogers was saying about the security. everyone is focused on the talking point and intelligence and what susan rice said. what she told jake tapper was

the two former navy seals who died that day were the ambassador's personal security. that didn't require on faulty intelligence. they would have known that going in. that is untruth she said at the time. there is a lot of things they said about the situation and security buildup in advance that is forgot down the memory hole. >> bret: congressman chaffitz is talking about trying to talk to survivors and he hasn't had any luck talking to anybody who is a survivor, the state department has not been cooperated. trying to follow up on all of that. next up, the president and the house speaker look at white house looking over the fiscal cliff together. what's happening? initiated.

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here we are at the 11th hour and the president still isn't serious rabbit dealing with this issue right here. it's this issue. spending. >> how are you feeling about a deal? optimistic? >> still a work in progress. >> speaker ban boehner says he s waiting to hear more from you. >> merry christmas. >> bret: "merry christmas." the white house, president invited speaker boehner to the white house. they just wrapped up a meeting at the top of the show. we're just getting a read-out. apparently treasury secretary was in the meeting as well. this is the statement. the president and the speaker had a frank meeting -- love the word "frank" describing the meetings -- in the oval office tonight. it lasted 50 minutes. there will be no further read-out of the meting but lines of communication remain open. that is where we are. back with the panel. jonah, "lines of communication are open."

what do we make of that? >> i'm beginning to think that, you know, president obama's position is likal corlioni position in "godfather ii." "my offer is nothing." charles running with this for a while and his real goal is to watch the republican party go up in flames and eat themselves alive. which so far seems to be working. what boehner should do at this point is sip pli take the middle class -- point is simply take the middle class tax cut, huge victory. eat it on raising the top rate and live to fight another day. >> bret: new p nbc/"wall street journal" poll is out if there is no compromise on the fiscal cliff, who will be more to blame? there are the numbers. democrats, 19%. republicans 24%. equally to blame is 56%. that is against the wisdom that the republicans would

overwhelmingly be held accountable. >> i am still trying to figure out how they go up in flames while they eat themselves alive. your metaphor, so i'll let you have it. >> s'mores. >> a barbecue gone bad. >> cannibalistic self-barbecue. the equally to blame thing i have to admit i don't put stock in. if you put a poll question in people either/or you force them to choose. in the 56% are a lot of people according to previous polls that think republicans are more to blame. the way i prove that is the behavior of the president. he looks at his own polls which i'm sure are scientific and showing him, he has the upper hand politically, which is what the republicans concede as well, that is why he is driving hard bargain. the republicans are as jonah suggests desperately looking for a plan "b." i seems to be something like capitulate on the top rate. then come back next, early next year when you have leverage with the debt ceiling and try to get the spending

cuts then. >> bret: speaking of polls, fox news poll out today. federal government is providing too many services. 49%. too few services 20%. right amount, 25%. lot of questions about sending. people are concerned about spending. if you ask them about it, they know pass on things to their kids grand kids, that you can't handle $16.3 trillion in debt. >> unfortunately it's abstraction. when you offer people real cuts they generally say no, i don't want them. i want cuts to cut somebody else. let me make two points on the reporting. the idea readout this is a frank discussion, frank is a word they use in diplomacy. when it was used in the cold word, when kennedy would meet and announce that the meetings were frank, people would restock the bomb shelters. so that is as cold a word you can get. it means nothing happened and they might have been angry.

i likened this to a tortoise 10k last night. do a sportcenter on the new development. republican tortoise advanced neck length. the democratic one hasn't moved an some observers think it's dead. it hasn't moved in a month. obama is not going to move. he is not going to offer anything. boehner will have to decide how he capitulates. >> bret: okay. we will talk about it again, something tells me. that is it for the panel. stay tuned toee why some, some might be afraid to talk about entitlement reform. begin. tomato, obviously. haha. there's more than that though, there's a kick to it. wahlalalalallala! smooth, but crisp. it's kind of like drinking a food that's a drink, or a drink that's a food, woooooh! [ male announcer ] taste it and describe the indescribable.

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>> bret: finally tonight, some lawmakers shy away from discussing entitlement reform, medicare, social security, making cuts to programs. perhaps because they watched to what happened to former roadside bomb any economic advisor hubbard in an interview. >> that forces congress to